DiyLightAnimation
Fun => The Porch => Topic started by: smeighan on January 23, 2012, 01:44:21 pm
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Being new to his site, I joined a few months ago, I would like to share some ideas on the coop's
First; I was surprised that there is someone designing new electronics, custom made for the DIY community. RJ, you just seem to be a person with the highest quality, drive, imagination. You obviously are a gifted hardware and software engineer. I am not sure why you offer so much of yourself to the community, thanks!
The prices that DIY equipment can be purchased here just , at first, seemed unreal.
The growth that this site has seen (what, 1200 memebers last year, 2500 this year)? amazing. As RGB comes out, as you make new hardware available that does amazing things. LE, Aether, Smart strings, wireless dmx, .etc., the growth is probably going to continue
Your goal was to allow someone without previous hardware/software experience to enter this DIY Christmas light world. You succeeded.
What about the scale-ability of the current process. Next year, 5000 people?
I would open this thread to ideas to help this process grow.
Here are some of my ideas
1) How about a $1 fee per device to go to the coop managers. I would gladly pay an extra dollar for each device to have the advantage of getting this quality of product and kit. I feel these people (i saw the video of JJ packing), should get something for their work.
2) Maybe a way to have people queue their requests into a database for the products they would want. The upside of this is everyone could get in, the big downside is that someone would need to write the software to basically queue, sort, prioritize the people. I would be willing to offer to write the software to do this , after i also work on the RGBSB project. One advantage to a process that takes maybe 500 people asking for xx LE kits would be able to spread the work load, establish some system to fairly allocate a limited resource.
I do believe the current process can work going forward, but the success of this site is going to one day cause a lot of turmoil.
People can always buy the boards and pay $30 or so more per kit. But maybe a queuing system would actually reduce the number of PM's being sent around and make everyone's life less stressful.
I ordered 4 LE kits while i was in the Ukraine visiting my wife's parents over new years. They have very little WIFI in the city of Kharkov. The only place i could get on was McDonald's. So there i was in Kharkov, 10pm at night, ordering my 4 kits.
So, i already got my kits. Later this year, i will get an Ethernet dongle and some smart strings.
Please, this is not a criticism of the way it has been done, i really appreciate all that people do here. In the spirit of this site is why i am building the RGB Sequence builder.
Any other ideas of how to scale the coop process into the future?
thanks
sean
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Sorry I had to move this. Coop forum is only for approval coops
Rick R.
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This is great ideas, but I'm not sure this is the right place (section) for this discussion.
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the only problem with giving extra money to a coop manager (don't get me wrong, i'm for it) might that it might make it look like they're making a profit for tax purposes. when you come close to breaking even, it's easier to prove that all that money that came in, went out. but if more of it were staying, then it's harder to pass off the large amount as a hobby coop.
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There is no penalty for someone sending a couple of additional bucks to a coop manager as a donation to the cause. Just be sure to note that on your paypal payment comment.
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I think those are great ideas ... I second it!
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Isn't there already some 3% overage that the managers get to keep anyways? I'm sure this gets eaten up by other things, so I'm certainly not suggesting that the COOP managers are making a significant amount of money, but there should be a small overage.
I'm all for chipping in a few bucks a board as a thanks to the manager, honestly there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so, since you have the manager's paypal address. Definitely make it a seperate transaction though...
Regarding the queue... As this community continues to grow, I envision that someone will simply start a small business selling kits, and assembled boards based on this design. I don't know the legality of such a pursuit (licensing of the design, etc), but I bet it will happen considering how open the internet is. So someone will buy 500-1000 sets of components, setup a $10-15 markup, and just sell them whenever. Will alleviate the problems of people not being able to get in the coops, while at a slightly higher cost.
EDIT: Just so it's clear, I'm not advising or otherwise condoning someone selling the components and/or completed boards. I don't know whether it's legal or against the will of the community, and quite frankly I don't feel like looking it up, since I'm not planning on ever selling them. Just voicing my opinion... when there's a need, usually someone's willing to do it for a profit. I actually wonder if they could be cheaply made in china pre-assembled. Not sure if anyone would trust them, or simply assume they'd burst into flames in the middle of their straw filled nativity scene electrical box cover, but I'm just curious how much it would cost.
EDIT 2: just so it's further clear, I started typing my previous edit before any followup posts to mine. I did not type my first edit in response to criticism below.
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since all this stuff is RJ's and it's for non commercial use, i'm sure he would get involved in stopping someone from selling his kits in a manner to make a profit.
the sale/trade area is for a way to let go of stuff you don't need anymore, not to build something and try to make money from it. as stated in the rules, this is not ebay.
trying to turn this into a business is NOT what RJ intended. he wanted a place for people to come together and learn from each other.
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+1 on what Chris said.
I do like the idea of a database, it could give a better idea of the numbers we are looking at for COOP's. Maybe something that each user could update in their profile to show their current needs. It could be purged after a COOP is run or once a month and the users would be required to update it after it is purged.
Just a thought.
Rich
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+2 on what Chris said.
I think that RJ and this forum is what the whole idea of DIY is about. With the growing number of members and the new people (myself included) can not wait to get into a coop. A database is a great idea for the coop managers to see what is in demand, but it will still be up to the individuals to get into the coop's, correct?
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I'd be happy to do the database (mysql) work if we have volunteer for the front end (php)
-Rimist (via Tapatalk)
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It's a hobby... it's supposed to take some time. I also think it's similar to things like model building, where you can buy it pre-made, but if something fails then you're screwed. Building your own and understanding each component's function is much better in the long run.
That being said, just like in the RC field, pre-built has it's place, and there'a always an empty factory in China looking for the next product to clone. Usually they are of much lower quality, and especially when dealing with relatively large quantities of AC current, I would have a hard time using it. Maybe for a string of lights, or something of that nature, but not a board with 10-40A going through it.
Not meaning to stir anything up, just making an observation. I'm appreciative of everything everyone is doing here as a community, and I prefer to build my own anyways. Just like my ammo :D
EDIT: If you're building a database, it would be nice if you could have the zip codes public, maybe the sub-coop within a coop could work out, give people a chance to meet other DLA'ers.
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If you're building a database, it would be nice if you could have the zip codes public, maybe the sub-coop within a coop could work out, give people a chance to meet other DLA'ers.
I agree that this would be a good thing, we try to get people in the Austin area together under the umbrella of the LoneStarHolidays group... but if I know about DIY community members we can include them in the building activities.
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There is a fine line when it comes to hobby vs. business. If you start adding donations and extras on top in the IRS eye it will be viewed as a business.
RJ has stated more times than he should have to that the way coops run is the way they will run.
If you want a product that is off the shelf ready there are several vendors who provide that functionality today.
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When it's a kit, the bulder assumes a certain responsibility for an item.
If it comes pre-assembled, I would think that it would need to be tested for safety and UL listed. Nt sure what all that entails, but it is probably expensive...
RM
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Yes I would have something to say, I would not consider this OK since it is against many rules agreeded to in the aggrement that everyone here has agreed to when they signed up.
RJ
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Sometimes, if you're fortunate, a good idea turns into something we never imagined it would be. RJ and his dream has certainly become much more than I think he ever expected. When you're good at what you do and you have the support of the membership with your goal; nothing is impossible. I think change is good if it meets the reason one started the process in the first place. There are some really good ideas on this site and I respect every single one of them. Collectively and with respect for the originator, I think there is nothing but good things to come in the future.
There must be a way to keep the train on it's tracks and that's either slow it down or build better systems to keep things from crashing. In this case, I'm referring the process, not the hardware. The whole reason I was attracted to this site and it's hardware is because I could build it, understand and maintain it. It was perfect for me, all the brain work for simplicity of assembly had already been done, plus it was cost effective and very reasonably priced (the best I might add).
Keep the dream, improve the dream and in some cases, let the dream run it's course; it will be a good dream!
Thanks RJ and the Coop managers for all the hard work and I hope together we can come to some improvements that meets all the needs of this organization.
<res.
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Let's say up front that RJ and the coop managers can do things any way they want. So any discussion here can be ignored if it would be more work for them!
I do like the idea of a queuing database tho. I myself missed out (barely) on two express coops already; I'm not complaining, just recognizing that it could happen again and I might easily miss all of them in 2012. It would be cool to be in the queue now - so that if a coop opens in July after I've been waiting for many months, I would not miss out because I was away from the computer for a few hours. I could imagine something like announcing the date of start of a new coop, and requiring anybody in the queue to validate their continued interest/commitment to buy within the week before it opens or lose their place in the queue - or something similar.
I could imagine this becoming less work for the coop manager.
Again - I'm just contributing to a brainstorming thread about possible ways to simplify the process, not complaining or expecting anything more from RJ or the coop managers. After seeing the video, I have nothing but appreciation for the work it takes and the good will that motivate it.
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Keep the dream, improve the dream and in some cases, let the dream run it's course; it will be a good dream!
Maybe RJ needs a theme song ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKn6h2x5IcY
:):):)
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Actually, I think that a que would have more negative effects than positive ones. How would it be maintained? I think that it would increase the workload and increase the time required to complete the coop. If the que get too long the coop managers ore worse yet, RJ will start getting a lot of PM's from people asking where they are in the que and will they ever see a kit. Keeping the coops running this way also helps to keep many people active in the forum.
I think that the issue is being delt with properly by increasing the number of coop managers which will lead to many more coops for the desired items. Having more smaller coops should both help meet the demand for desired items and reduce the workload on the coop managers.
I am not a big fan of the current "suprise coop" method currently being used but I do see some merit in it. Doing this also keeps more members active as they need to keep poking around to see if a coop is running but since many are setting up for coop notification I'm not sure how effective that is anymore. I think that the coop managers posting about a week prior to their coops showing the kits, the start and end dates, the price points, and limits of the coop will help the members plan better and get their payments in on time. This would also further reduce the workload on the coop managers as well as reduce the stress on the coop members worrying if they will miss the next coop or not.
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Thanks for all the recommendations but as stated before the coops are not changing and they will not be noticed ahead on a regular basis. So continuing to hash it will not add any benifit to it at this point.
As stated before we have tried the pre notice before and it was worst. We have not tried the queue but it is not needed to try as I can tell you it would just add issues to the coops as people would change their minds and not update the queue so we would launch coops to find we had no idea of who or how many we needed.
No matter how you slice it the only answer is to get lots of coop managers trained and running so we can do larger volume of coops. Nothing else fixes this it just changes who did not get them this time. X number of kits when you have X times 5 people want them leaves people without. The fact is by June or so we will likely have no issue getting anyone taking care of as it always is this busy this time of year and slows as the year goes on.
RJ
RJ