Trouble shooting Please help steer me in right direction/ Self test results.

[GrumpkaXmas]

EDIT: Ok, serious?  I just printed the manual out.  I won't name names, but there is simply NO WAY the guy I bought these from tested these things.   See edit notes below..... I"m feeling VERY dumb....

<la..


Well, I wanted to learn electronics, guess I'm going to learn electronics with this latest blunder.   

I purchased five Lynx Express boards very recently.  I'm sure the seller had great intentions, but I'm now facing some challenges.   I purchased these based on "tested ok".  I was aware of a couple broken parts on one board.  The rest I thought would be ready to run.  Before i even attempt to connect these to a computer, I want to be sure they pass the self test.   Not sure any of them have. 
I was unable to find the wiki section on self test and what the results had meant.

I'm hoping someone could steer me in the right direction.  I'm pretty much brand new at electronics, but happy to read and study, learn and problem solve.   A little help getting going would be great though.  Love to get at least one or two out of the five boards talking to the PC via DMX.

Here's the results of the fix boards:

Board #1) Version 3.0 :
 Powers up 5v Led ok,  3.3v LED dead (need to check the led I guess).  Self test- runs through, all 16 channels blink, ends with #2,#3, #4 remaining light at end of self test.  Seems like 120v is going to the triac output on the terminal blocks for these channels as well.   Test repeated three times, cold starts,  same results.

EDIT: Board is completely missing RS485 Chip right of DMX IN.  Betting that might help if I get me one of those, LOL!  It's a start.

Board #2) Version 3.0:
 Led 5v & 3.3v light, everything looks great.  Selfcheck leaves on channel #2 & #4.   (hoping this one is good, and the results are normal?)   

EDIT:  I think this board is Ok???  Still searching for info in manual on selfcheck directions

Board #3) Version 2.0,  maybe my best hope.   No self test in version 2 or LEDs for 5v or 3.3v.   LED Segments light fine and codes seem fine.   Might be ready to go to work?  Anything I should check prior to connecting to DMX?  I don't want to fry my DMX dongle and PC.

EDIT:ALso Missing the RS485 chip??? Did this guy get hungry for RS485 chips?  He must have hacked these boards for parts.  Sad the seller didn't notice this....

Board #4) Version 3.0, 5v Led OK,  3.3v Dead.  LED Segments Dead.  Nothing going on.   Don't know where to even start on this one

EDIT: Hmmm, let's start with the fact BOTH RS485 chips are gone!  Maybe, that is also why the  3.3v Led's don't light on the other board.

Board #5) Version 4.0 , 5V led ok, 3.3v ok, LED ok,  Self test,  no channel leds light at all. ?
Note:  This board has two broken BTA06-600s (i'm not impressed with the built actually, lots of flimsy soldering) Power terminal block needs to be replaced, broke neutral pin, and a few other items I'm not please with.   

EDIT: You guessed it,  missing an RS485 chip. Think the busted Triac wouldn't stop the LED's from lighting though.  Maybe this one needs to be reflashed.

I am not too sure where to start.   I guess for what I paid, I can't really complain.  However, I really want all five boards to function.  I assume I can test each part and perhaps reflow every junction.  I don't have a programmer, but I'm sure that can't be too hard to get. Maybe, reseat all the Pic chips? I'd just like to see what is what and if anything I listed will help narrow down this seemingly impossible newbie troubleshooting list of tasks.  In hindsight, I think I should have saved my money and started with my own builds. Disappointed with what looks like a very inexperienced persons attempt to desolder some triacs.  Well, at least I know I'll take my time and redo this stuff the right way.  Half-a**ing something that runs on line voltage is just idiotic.  I think people forget how easy it is to be killed by 120v. 

Anyway... any and all help appreciated.

 If anyone is nearby in NorthWest NJ who knows Lynx Express boards, I'd be happy to buy you lunch or dinner to come help me check these things over.  I'm in a bit over my head I think.  LOL.

Thanks,

Stephen

 <fp.

EDIT:Going to order me some RS485 IC's  A lot of them.  PIC2 Programmer, maybe a few new pic chips, find a replacement for the SAA1064 chip, as I think that may be shot on one of the boars, some new BTA06-600S, and a hand full of MOC3032's.  This is might take me a while.   Still can't believe I missed the rs485's.  I say the blank IC's but figured they were for "optional" expansion or such.  First time I'm seeing a LE in person up close.   BTW RJ,  WOW!  What a nice board.   Drool.   Very well made, the spacing of the traces, the size of the AC traces, the overall board feels very professional.   I have to say, I'm glad these are my first boards.   Can't wait to build my own so I can avoid fixing other peoples messes.   At least I'll know how to problem solve these little boards once I get through this....

[deplanche]

I think the best think you can do to get some help is post some photos of each of the controllers.  Do shots of both the top and bottom of both so that we can see what parts are installed (top) and also the soldering of them (bottom).  Since you have multiple boards, be sure to make it easy for us to understand which is which.

The missing RS485 chip next to the DMX IN location is likely because the board was using wireless.  If you have connectors at the "Wireless module" location, it was likely used for wireless as these aren't typically included with the LE coops, but rather with the EX/RX coops and BOM.  See the Manual for the EX/RX (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) for which versions require that chip to be removed for wireless and which have a jumper.

The Channel 2, 3, and 4 LEDs are for checking different things that are working (ZC=Zero Cross, DMX input, and DONE).  2 and 4 should always light up after the test.  3 will if the board is getting a DMX signal.  If you don't have it hooked up to a dongle or wireless, it will likely be off.  But if the RS485 chips are missing, I've seen different results on different versions.

The rest will be easier to help with the photos... at least for me.  Others may be able to help more without them.


I'd also suggest getting a PICKIT 3 rather than the 2, just in case you decide to move to pixelnet in the future.

[RJ]

Yes pictures are a great way to help us help you. You can relax, unless the pcb is damaged physically we can always get them working. The non worked 3.3v led if the unit boots with the digits lighting up then you have 3.3 volts so the led might have been installed backwards (normally what would cause this) the RS485 chips as said on the older models where removed to use wireless. so likely why some are missing. I doubt the led driver is bad as I have not personally seen or heard of one failing on the expresses other than someone dropping it and stepping on it and thats nto really a failure of the chip. We will get you working theres a lot of great people on the forum more than willing to help.

RJ

[GrumpkaXmas]

Yes pictures are a great way to help us help you. You can relax, unless the pcb is damaged physically we can always get them working. The non worked 3.3v led if the unit boots with the digits lighting up then you have 3.3 volts so the led might have been installed backwards (normally what would cause this) the RS485 chips as said on the older models where removed to use wireless. so likely why some are missing. I doubt the led driver is bad as I have not personally seen or heard of one failing on the expresses other than someone dropping it and stepping on it and thats nto really a failure of the chip. We will get you working theres a lot of great people on the forum more than willing to help.

RJ

Thanks RJ.  I know, you guys are very helpful.  I'm in good hands.  I'll get some pictures posted.  First, I'm going to pop the ST485BN into the Rev 2 board.  I think that board is in nice condition.  It was a clean build.  I'll work my way onto the next board. I figured I had 3.3v, regardless of the led.  I think the board with no LCD display is the one I'm most concerned with. That one might have a bad voltage reg or such.  Think I need to just do one at a time.  (don't want to drive everyone crazy.)  I'll do what I can myself tomorrow, and pick a board and work one at a time.  No rush.  I'm just having fun and greatful I'll have support along the way.

Have a great night guys.  Thanks for the help.

[GrumpkaXmas]

Quicky question
Can a max485 replace the ST485BN on the express board?  I thinking it can't based on some quick searches on google.  Thought I'd ask. 

[tbone321]

Swapping out parts when the actual needed part is still available is not a good idea.  One of the reasons that this group is so effective at offerng support is that we all have the same items created with the same components and using the same firmware versions so we know what to expect and what most of the issues are.  When you move away from the tried and proven components, you introduce variables that could make it difficult for others in the group to be able to help you.

[GrumpkaXmas]

Swapping out parts when the actual needed part is still available is not a good idea.  One of the reasons that this group is so effective at offerng support is that we all have the same items created with the same components and using the same firmware versions so we know what to expect and what most of the issues are.  When you move away from the tried and proven components, you introduce variables that could make it difficult for others in the group to be able to help you.

Good advice.  BTW:  Swapped the RS485's and now have two LE v3's with self test ok, just #2/#4 light is on.  Guessing that is good?    One 3.3v LED is out, but as RJ said, must be the LED as the LCD is fine.  Can't wait to hook up Vixen and get these things talk.  The other three boards all need RS485's. 

Oh, question on that point,  The ST485BN is stated at END OF LIFE on Mouser.   I can get the chips, but what happens when you can't get that same chip anymore?   

[n1ist]

The MAX485 should work instead of the ST485BN.    If you have it on hand, give it a shot.  There's one version of the MAX485 that's only rated to work down to 0C; that may cause issues depending on where you live, but only when it gets below freezing.

/mike

[GrumpkaXmas]

The MAX485 should work instead of the ST485BN.    If you have it on hand, give it a shot.  There's one version of the MAX485 that's only rated to work down to 0C; that may cause issues depending on where you live, but only when it gets below freezing.

/mike

I don't have one, but can get them much cheaper than the ST485BN.  (in small qty anyway).  Looking at the data sheets and seeing if there is much difference. 

[tbone321]

Oh, question on that point,  The ST485BN is stated at END OF LIFE on Mouser.   I can get the chips, but what happens when you can't get that same chip anymore?   

Under normal circumstances, people will submit possible replacement part number specs and if RJ approves it, then it becomes the new part number and the bom is updated. 

[RJ]

Watch those cheap ones as they normall are limited in temp range and can cause you problems.

RJ

[GrumpkaXmas]

Watch those cheap ones as they normall are limited in temp range and can cause you problems.

RJ

I saw that.  Some of the alternatives had different temp specs.  Didn't even bother with the Max485. I might get one to try it for fun, but just going ST485BN.   Mouser has plenty.   Trying to put an order together so I don't have to pay $8.00 shipping on $8.00 of IC's. LOL

[tbone321]

Then I would make it a spare parts run as well like some spare Triacs, a few opto's, a couple of spare PICs, as well as the needed 485's with a few spares here as well. 

[GrumpkaXmas]

 
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!

One success story..... Self test-success, DMX via Vixen, 16 random channel sequence-success.  Tried out two 50watt floods,  ramp up, hold, ramp down, success.   I am so stick'n happy this thing worked.   Next step is to mount the heat sink, properly mount board into it's case, and connect the wires up properly. 

I reprogrammed this board to be channel 1.  So, I assume I just program the next board in the chain to channel 17?  Seems logical....

Can't wait to get the other boards up and running.   So far, so good.  Thanks for all the help guys.   I'm sure I'll need more help when I get to the three other boards.   Can't tackle that task until my new solder station and the mouser stuff arrives. 

This is exactly what I wanted.  A trouble free, initial setup.  From here, I can have confidence to have a shot at building boards, the lynx dongles, and obviously a few more LE v5 boards next Coop.     

To be continued.....

[t.jo13]

To help with your order from mouser if you plan on getting into RGB you could buy some extra fuses for the active hub ect. Also check out the boms. In the wiki for any parts you may need for other equipment